Interview with Sylvain Levy
The DSLcollection, created in 2005 by Sylvain and Dominique Levy, is one of the top 5 Chinese Contemporary Art collections in Europe. It is a privately owned art collection representing over 350 of the leading Chinese avant-garde artists, and across all media including paintings, sculptures, installations, and videos. Currently, Karen Levy, daughter for Sylvain And Dominque, will be implementing all new projects.
Anna Buali: Your DSL collection is a dynamic, vivid project, which I personally started to follow in around 2009, when you already had a series of online exhibitions. Each year you update 10% of your collection – so, it has evolved dramatically since then. I am still extremely interested in what you consider to be revolutionary art, challenging tastes and senses – what is the arrow point now? Do you see things changing more into technological forms, crypto formats? Or not?
Sylvain Levy: Oh my goodness, that's a huge question. I'll attempt a summary, though condensing it is always tricky, given our extensive experience since we began collecting. Let's delve into our current status, trajectory, and future vision.
Firstly, a crucial aspect for any collection is staying dynamic and conversant with the contemporary milieu. Our journey with the Chinese collection has propelled us to be counted among the top three collections held by Western individuals. The focus on Chinese art persists, but our interests have undergone a shift. Present-day creative developments in China leave me somewhat disinterested due to prevailing censorship.
Art is the mirror of society at a certain time and if I look at music, films, art or books, I find this image very dull. So, I’m trying to find other ways to get excited. As for collecting, collaborations truly excite us. Consider, we collected a lot of works of Virgil Abloh, his collaborations with Ikea, Nike, Louis Vuitton, and Vitra. We are collecting India Mahdavi's interior collaborations as well. If you really want to see something interesting today, look at these collaborations. First, for me it’s still about creativity. Furniture collection by Virgil Abloh and Galerie kreo for Ikea still echoes his essence, yet the difference is – you can afford it – a chair by Virgil Abloh at Ikea for a mere hundred euros. It’s also a way to democratize art and to bring art to the rooms of people and to make them live with beauty. And also, to make them discover what they have – their everyday items – can become a digital collectible, vintage collectible.
If you purchase a chair by Virgil Abloh at IKEA for five or ten euros, you embark on an intelligent collecting journey without delving into high price ranges. I'm greatly intrigued by the notion of exploring current happenings within these collaborations. In fact, this is an avenue we're actively exploring. What's amusing is that our approach to collecting has remained somewhat similar. Just as we used to frequent flea markets, we now venture into the realm of "flea market 2.0" – vintage websites in Belgium, Holland, and elsewhere.
Similarly, we peruse vintage websites in Italy to gather works by Italian designers. This excites me significantly because it doesn't necessitate substantial financial investments. It brings us back to what a collection is.
Naturally everyone has their own way to look at the collection but I do believe that a collection should stay a kind of wonder cabinet, and especially in your home it's not merely about prominent names adorning the walls. It's about the personality these objects convey. It’s for me you know, it’s what Yves Saint Laurent and Jacque Doucet used to do. I’m much more close to Yves Saint Laurent's approach rather than aligning with the likes of Paul Allen or Jose Mugrabi.
AB: The projects and works I recall from DSL didn't carry the sense of being confined to a cabinet. They were expansive, extending beyond the boundaries of a home or personal connection. They resembled grand portrayals of the world's transformation, presenting a broad perspective. To transition to this proximity with the object is truly intriguing.
SL: Do you know what my interpretation of the aesthetic experience is? For me, the experience is about encountering the unforeseen. It can be a snicker of Virgil Abloh but it can also be a huge installation. It’s not only about aesthetic visually, it’s about ideas, about an encounter with an unexpected human being, an artist or a new art person. So I like to be confronted by challenges and it’s not the question of size, it’s a question of trying to speak the language of my time.
AB: Absolutely, and the collaboration transcends the mere object and revolves around the relationships forged, the connections established with the audience. Returning to the topic of the digital realm, do you perceive the online presence as a potential catalyst for fresh interactions and collaborations between individuals? Does it truly create a level playing field?
SL: There are two aspects to consider: how I perceive it and what's actually unfolding. We've been immersed in the digital landscape since 2005. We transitioned from an iPad application in 2011 to Second Life in 2012, then ventured into virtual reality. By 2021, we even entered the realm of video games, and now, we're delving into the metaverse. Personally, I've witnessed the transformation of individuals through this digital journey. This is very important what you said because whatever is the reaction of the art world, what is important is the human being.
I was born entirely as Homo sapiens, 100%, yet as we entered the late 20th and early 21st centuries, I've become not only Homo sapiens but also a touch of Homo Numericus. However, consider my two-year-old grandson – I want you to try to imagine what he will become. He will be Homo Sapiens and Homo Numericus but he will have avatars, he will live in the metaverse, Fortnite platform or other will provide him with multiple identities. What's more, he'll interact with virtual humans, those crafted entirely by artificial intelligence, and he might not even discern the difference. Alongside this, he'll encounter individuals with augmented capabilities – something akin to Elon Musk's "human ++" concept. Thus, my grandson's world will encompass being Homo sapiens, Homo numericus, an avatar, interacting with virtual humans, and perhaps face human ++. And all these categories will also consume art, connect with art, produce art all of which is likely to unfold within the next decade.
Whatever the art world wants to do, they cannot fight against the transformation of the human being. It’s impossible. Traditional art forms will persist. People will go to see exhibitions of paintings but they will not connect only with paintings. They will engage with their entire world, and this world will largely be digital. So, whatever the art world is doing, what is important is how society is moving.
This is why we went into the metaverse. This is why now we’re working on a project on artificial intelligence. And I think that if I were in your position today, I would really look at things now only through the idea of digital. I think the idea of digital and non-digital is an old debate. Today the debate is much, it’s on another level, it’s in the level of how people will live in the metaverse. How will people live with AI? How will they create? What will be the rules?
Today, your focus should encompass existing endeavors, but for a forward-looking stance – what’s happening with AI, what’s happening with metaverse, how we are capable of creating incredible experiences.
I will give you an example. You know we have opened virtual reality spaces in different countries. We have opened one in China, we are opening one in Columbia. We opened one in Kiyv two years ago, in the Kyiv’s Modern Art Research Institute. However, the onset of conflict forced a pause, leading us to establish a Ukrainian space within the metaverse. Intriguingly, we organized an open call for artists, receiving responses from 250 individuals. After careful selection, 35 artists were chosen. We decided to incorporate digital fashion as well. We have the best digital fashion designers coming with three museums in this space. And what is interesting with this experience is three things. With the digital, we could give accessibility. But also, the works, which were created by the artists, were created in a very special time, context – the war. And you can feel it. It means that in 5-10 years, this exhibition will be a historical exhibition, and you will be able to look at it as a historical event, as it happened in the time being. And what’s interesting, also is that you can preserve things which could be destroyed by the war, which could disappear. So, this is also how digital can function and naturally it’s accessible from all over the world. Presently, our metaverse encompasses a network of 10 interconnected spaces. Remarkably, our latest addition revives Leonardo da Vinci's church, meticulously reconstructed from his original drawings.
And there, you can venture inside, walking as though within the towering confines of a 40-meter-high church, an architectural marvel fashioned by Leonardo da Vinci. Within, special soundscapes immerse you, accompanying your journey. This encapsulates our current undertaking – our latest project.
We’re using the capabilities of AI to create a space. We have a curator and we’re creating a space for South American art. The curator is giving her instructions: “I want a space like that, this color. I want it to look like the exact museum”. She’s writing what she wants and the AI is creating the space. And so what will be great is that today you can have a kind of cyber flenum, you can go from China to anywhere to Ukraine, then to a space in South America,. And this is what we’re doing at the moment.
AB: Indeed, this expansion mirrors the broadening of one's taste and perspective. It's an extension of your unique vision, as well as your curator's. This evolution stems from the expertise honed in the offline realm, seamlessly transitioning into more digital, globally accessible spaces. But a question emerges – in a world where we're progressing towards heightened capabilities, will there be a space for individuals like gallerists and curators to discern greatness? And you as a collector, will you be there as you’re now?
SL: You see, I can't predict whether I'll be present to confirm if the world has indeed moved into a realm akin to 1984 2.0. Given the current situations in China and Russia, one could argue that we're witnessing a shift towards such a world. To prevent a complete transition into this scenario, it's imperative for us to remain Homo sapiens. We must uphold our human essence while adapting to the contemporary language of our time. Take our work in the metaverse, for instance. All our endeavors involve curators – we rely on their expertise, steering away from employing corporate gaming entities firms. We're employing curators to construct the exhibitions.
What's of importance is striking a balance – maintaining our Homo sapiens. The key is to engage in a struggle, a concerted effort. This is my aspiration on a smaller scale – to showcase that we can continue to be shaped by the very best of our heritage while simultaneously embracing the language of our contemporary time. So, it will depend on you. You have to choose whatever you want to be and whatever you want the others to be and try to make it.